by Robert Malone, MS, MD, Who is Robert Malone:
UAPs: Delusions, Angels, Demons, or Aliens (that is- “non humans”)?
My friend and UFO (UAP) investigator, attorney Justine Isernhinke and I had a long and intriguing discussion on UAPs before and after the The House Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs for unidentified anomalous phenomenon (UAP), otherwise known as UFOs, finished testimony. Above is the video of our conversations as well as an audio only version.
TRUTH LIVES on at https://sgtreport.tv/
That hearing was a bombshell. Other than the UAP jaw dropping testimony, it was fascinating to have Rep. Matt Gaetz and Rep. Ocasio-Cortez both in agreement on the importance of this phenomona. And yes, they appeared to agreed that issues of national security, threat level assessment, the cover-up, alleged corruption and that UAPs must be being taken very seriously by Congress. I encourage everyone to read the transcript or listen to the entire hearing.
Below are also some of the more relevant quotes from that testimony, for those that are short on time.
The three witnesses, shown above, at the House hearing were:
Lt. Ryan Graves, who is the executive director of Americans for Safe Aerospace and is a former US Navy F-18 pilot with his own UAP experience. The next witness, David Grusch was recently a senior intelligence officer with the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and was a senior technical advisor on UAP issues. Finally, retired Navy Commander David Fravor was a squadron leader who worked as a naval aviator for 18 years.
Below are the opening statements from the the three witnesses.
Ryan Graves:Â Thank you. Chairman Grothman, Ranking Member Garcia, distinguished members of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, Representative Burgett and Luna. My name is Ryan Fobes Graves and I’m a former F-18 pilot with a decade of service in the US Navy including two deployments in Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Inherent Resolve. I have experienced advanced UAP firsthand and I’m here to voice the concerns of more than 30 commercial air crew and military veterans who have confided their similar encounters with me. Today, I would like to highlight three critical issues that demand our action.
As we convene here, UAP are in our airspace, but they’re grossly under-reported. These sightings are not rare or isolated. They’re routine. Military air crew and commercial pilots. Trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification are frequently witnessing these phenomenon. The stigma attached to UAP is real and powerful and challenges national security. It silences commercial pilots who fear professional repercussions, discourages witnesses, and is only compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony.
Parts of our government are aware of more about UAP than they led on, but excessive classification practices keep crucial information hidden. Since 2021, all UAP videos are classified as secret or above. This level of secrecy not only impedes our understanding, but fuel speculation and mistrust. In 2014, I was an F-18 Fox Trot pilot in the Navy fighter attack Squadron 11, the Red Rippers and I was stationed at NAS Oceania in Virginia Beach. After upgrades were made to our Jets radar systems, we began detecting unknown objects operating in our airspace. At first, we assumed they were radar errors, but soon we began to correlate the radar tracks with multiple onboard sensors including infrared systems. Eventually through visual ID. During a training mission in warning area Whiskey 72, 10 miles off the coast of Virginia Beach, two F-18 Super Hornets were split by a UAP.
The object described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft and was estimated to be five to 15 feet in diameter. The mission commander terminated the flight immediately and returned base. Our squadron submitted a safety port, but there was no official acknowledgement of the incident and no further mechanism to report the sightings. Soon these encounters became so frequent that aircrew would discuss the risk of UAP as part of their regular pre- flight briefs. Recognizing the need for action and answers, I founded Americans for Safe Aerospace. The organization has since become a heaven for UAP witnesses who were previously unspoken due to the absence of a safe intake process. More than 30 witnesses have come forward and almost 5,000 Americans have joined us in the fight for a transparency at safeaerospace.org.
The majority of witnesses are commercial pilots at majority major airlines. Often they’re veterans with decades of flying experience. Pilots are reporting UAP altitudes that appear above them at 40,000 feet potentially in low earth orbit or in the gray zone below the Carmen line making unexplainable maneuvers like right-hand turns and retrograde orbits or J hooks. Sometimes these reports are reoccurring with numerous recent sightings north of Hawaii and in the North Atlantic. Other veterans are also coming forward to us regarding UAP encounters in our airspace and oceans. The most compelling involved observations of UAP by multiple witnesses and sensor systems. I believe these accounts are only scratching the surface and more will share their experiences once it is safe to do so.
In closing, I recognize the skepticism surrounding this topic. If everyone could see the sensor and video data I witnessed, our national conversation would change. I urge us to put aside stigma and address the security and safety issue this topic represents. If UAP are foreign drones, it is an urgent national security problem. If it is something else, it an issue for science. In either case, unidentified objects [00:46:30] are concerned for flight safety. The American people deserve to know what is happening in our skies. It is long overdue. Thank you.
David Grusch: Mr. Chairman, ranking members and congressmen. Thank you. I’m happy to be here. This is an important issue and I’m grateful for your time. My name is David Charles Grusch. I was an intelligence officer for 14 years, both in the US Air Force, both active duty international guard and reserve at the rank of major and most recently from 2021 to 2025 or 2023 at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency NGA at the GS-15 civilian level, which is the military equivalent of a full bird colonel. I was my agency’s co-lead in unidentified anomalous phenomena and trans medium object analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force, APTF. And eventually once it was established, the all domain anomaly resolution office arrow. I became a whistleblower through a PPD19 urgent concern filing in May 2022 with the Intelligence Community Inspector General. Following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the US government is operating with secrecy above congressional [00:48:00] oversights with regards to UAPs.
My testimony is based on information I’ve been given by individuals with a long-standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country, many of whom also have shared compelling evidence in the form of photography, official documentation, and classified oral testimony to myself and many of my various colleagues. I have taken every step I can to corroborate this evidence over a period of four years while I was with the UAP task force and do my due diligence on the individual sharing it. This is because of these steps I believe strongly in the importance of bringing this information before you. I’m driven by a commitment of both to truth and transparency rooted in our inherent duty to uphold the United States Constitution and protect the American people. I’m asking Congress to hold our government to the standard and thoroughly investigate these claims, but as I stand here under oath now I’m speaking to the facts as I’ve been told them. In the US Air Force in my national reconnaissance office NRO, reservist capacity, I was a member of the UAP task force from 2019 to 2021.
I served at the NRO Operations Center on the Director’s Briefing staff, which included the coordination of the Presidential Daily Brief and supporting variety of contingency operations, which I was the Reserve Intelligence Division chief backup. In 2019, the UAP Task Force director asked me to identify all special access programs and controlled access programs, also known as SAPs and CAPs. We needed to satisfy our congressionally mandated mission and we were direct report at the time to the (inaudible).
At the time, due to my extensive executive level intelligence support duties, I was cleared to literally all relevant compartments and in a position of extreme trust both in my military and civilian capacities. I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program, to which I was denied access to those additional read ons when I requested it. I made the decision based on the data I collected to report this information to my superiors and multiple inspectors general and in effect becoming a whistleblower. As you know, I’ve suffered retaliation from my decision, but I am hopeful that my actions will ultimately lead to a positive outcome of increased transparency. Thank you, and I’m happy to answer your questions.
Commander Fravor:Â Â Â Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congressman, Congresswoman, I want to first thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee on the UAP topic. This has been in the news for the past six years and seems to be continuing to gain momentum. As you know, my name is David Fravor. I’m a retired commander in the United States Navy. In 2004, I was a commanding officer of Strike Fighter Squadron 41, the world famous Black Aces. We’re attached to carrier 11 station on board the USS Nimitz, and had begun a two-month workup cycle off the coast of California. On this day, we were scheduled for a 2V2 air training with the USS Princeton as our control. When we launched off Nimitz, my wingman [00:51:30] was joining up. We were told that the training was going to be suspended and we were going to proceed with real world tasking. As we proceeded to the west, the air controller was counting down the range to an object and we were unaware of what we were going to see when we arrived.
There, the controller told us that these objects had been observed for over two weeks, coming down from over 80,000 feet rapidly descending to 20,000 feet, hanging out for hours, and then going straight back up. For those who don’t realize, above 80,000 feet is space. We arrived at the location at approximately 20,000 feet in the controller called Merge Plot, which means that our radar blip was now in the same resolution cell as the contact. As we looked around, we noticed that we saw some white water off our right side. It’s important to note that the weather on this day was as close to perfect as you could ask for off the coast of San Diego, clear skies, light winds, calm seas, no white caps from waves, so the white water stood out in the large blue ocean. All four of us because we were in F-18Fs, so we had pilots in the backseat.
Looked down a small, I saw a white tic-tac object with a longitudinal axis pointing north-south and moving very abruptly over the water like a ping pong ball. There were no rotors, no rotor wash or any sign of visible control surfaces like wings. As we started clockwise towards the object, my team and I decided to go down and take a closer look with the other aircraft staying in high cover to observe both us and the tic-tac. We proceeded around the circle about 90 degrees from the start of our descent, and the object suddenly shifted its longitudinal axis, aligned it with my aircraft and began to climb. We continued on to another 270 degrees nose low where the tic-tac… Or we consumed 270 degrees and we went nose low to where the tic-tac would’ve been. Our altitude at this point was about 15,000 feet, and the tic-tac was about 12,000.
As we pulled nose onto the object within about a half mile of it, it rapidly accelerated in front of us and disappeared. Our wingman, roughly 8,000 feet above us, lost contact also. We immediately turned back to see where the white water was at and it was gone also. So as you started to turn back towards the east, the controller came up and said, “Sir, you’re not going to believe this, but that thing is at your cat point, roughly 60 miles away in less than a minute.” You can calculate the speed. We returned to Nimitz. We were taking off our gear. We were talking to one of my crews that was getting ready to launch. We mentioned it to them and they went out and luckily got the video that you see, that 90 second video. What you don’t see is the radar tape that was never released, and we don’t know where it’s at of the active jamming that the object put on an APG73 radar, and I can get into modes later if you’re interested.
What is shocking to us is that the incident was never investigated. None of my crew were ever questioned. Tapes were never taken, and after a couple days, it turned into great story with friends. It wasn’t until 2009 until Jay Stratton had contacted me to investigate. Unbeknownst to all, he was part of the ATIP program and the Pentagon, led by Lou Elizondo, and there was an unofficial official report that came out that’s now in the internet.
Years later, I was contacted by the other pilot, Alex Dietrich, and asked if I’d been contacted and I said, no, but I’m willing to talk. I was contacted by Mr. Elizondo and we talked for a short period of time and he said we’d be in contact. A few weeks after that, I was made aware that Lou had left the Pentagon in protest and joined forces with Tom DeLong, Chris Mellon, Steve Justice, and others to form Two Stars Academy, an organization that pressed the issue with leading industry experts and US government officials.
They worked with Leslie Keen, who was present today, Rob Blumenthal and Helene Cooper to publish the articles in the 2017 New York Times, and it removed the stigma on the topic of UFOs, which is why we’re here today. Those articles opened [00:55:00] the door for the government and public that cannot be closed. It has led to an interest from our elected officials who are not focused on little green men, but figuring out where these craft are, where are they from, the technology that they possess, how do they operate? It also led to the Whistleblower Protection Act in the NDA. There are multiple witnesses coming forward to say that have firsthand knowledge, and Mr. Grusch has covered that. What concerns me is that there’s no oversight from our elected officials on anything associated with our government processing or working on craft, believe it or not from this world.
This issue is not a full public disclosure that can undermine national security, but it is about ensuring that our system of checks and balances works across all work done in the government using taxpayer funds. Relative to government programs, even unacknowledged wage programs have some level of oversight by the appropriate committee members in the House and Senate, and this work that is said to be occurring from whistleblower testimonies should not be exempt.
In closing, I would like to say that the tic-tac object we engaged in 2004 was far superior to anything that we had on time, have today, or looking to develop in the next 10 years. If we in fact have programs that possess this technology, it needs to have oversight from those people that the citizens of this great country elected in office to represent what is best for the United States and best for the citizens.
I thank you for your time. Thank you very much.
Below are excerpts from the hearing:
Representative Luna: Considering the thousands of testimonies and videos taken on people’s phones and eyewitnesses accounts made by credible witnesses such as doctors, pilots, scientists, and active duty service members, it is unacceptable to continue to gaslight Americans into thinking that this is not happening or that the potential of intelligent life forms exist other than humans.
U.S. Representa: Based on each of your experiences and observations, do you believe UAPs poses a potential threat to our national security?
Commandor Fravor: Yes, and here’s why. The technology that we faced was far superior than anything that we had, and you could put that anywhere. If you had one, you captured one, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work, you’re talking something can go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants and leave, and there’s nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
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